That's what supposed to be in the pipe right now."Even before it’s in place, European governments are moving toward enacting the permanent fund next year, a year sooner than planned, to replace the EFSF. Phasing in the permanent fund, known as the European Stability Mechanism, would provide a 500 billion-euro war chest. It also includes provisions for sharing costs with bondholders for countries with “unsustainable” debt.

Additional measures now in play include reopening the second Greek rescue agreed in July to increase the financial industry’s contribution and creating a safety net for Europe’s banks(Bloomberg)
Still think it is unavoidable to have some public hangings as part of the process to restore trust and confidence, it looks more and more unacceptable to many that a crisis of that scale with no one responsible and no mistakes made with a few scapegoats such as Super Devil or mortgages securitization is one more time an EU elite club cover up. Not to mention there is a growing concern as to why there is no public parliament inquiry and hearing and how the three major french banks end up with a number close to 672 billions of sovereign questionable debt with none out of the woods. What has been doing the regulator to insure that at least one gun stayed in the draw?

No am in the bus right now, why?

I mean seriously? I aint sure cause it is from the bits he sent me in the morning and those I caught over the web but usually it is pretty accurate.

I just doubt something? Do u think Sarky sent the guy or do u lean to that it is on his own that he went on sayin the crisis started with Lehman's collapse 3 years ago indirectly pointing a finger at Wall Street, Lehman ultimately the US banking system as the cause for the eurozone debt crisis and the irresponsible lending to Greece? He pointed out as well that prior to Lehman's collapse there was no problem within the eurozone (ahahaha) inviting the average viewer to conclude of the sub prime mortgages mess was responsible for the Greek bankrupcy and the euro peripheral countries debt problems. Is he dumb, on a mission or just ignoring any recession something u r going to have now and again would have produced the very same result, shutting down the previous attempt to explain their lousy job as leading politicians and justify their failure by Super Devil Lloys advising the small devil, the previous Greek Gov when applying to enter the eurozone? Is that stuff dead now? Meaning there never was any cheat when Greece applied to enter the euro?
I guess it is a bit confusing really. Would u say of someone that expose the mortgages securitization as responsible for the EU debt mess, irresponsible lending, sleeping at the switch national regulators not to mention incompetent M. We don't need an authorisation lousy job that saw nothing of the deficits madness of some countries, that he is a statesman?

I just doubt something? Do u think Sarky sent the guy or do u lean to that it is on his own that he went on sayin the crisis started with Lehman's collapse 3 years ago indirectly pointing a finger at Wall Street, Lehman ultimately the US banking system as the cause for the eurozone debt crisis and the irresponsible lending to Greece? He pointed out as well that prior to Lehman's collapse there was no problem within the eurozone (ahahaha) inviting the average viewer to conclude of the sub prime mortgages mess was responsible for the Greek bankrupcy and the euro peripheral countries debt problems. Is he dumb, on a mission or just ignoring any recession something u r going to have now and again would have produced the very same result, shutting down the previous attempt to explain their lousy job as leading politicians and justify their failure by Super Devil Lloys advising the small devil, the previous Greek Gov when applying to enter the eurozone? Is that stuff dead now? Meaning there never was any cheat when Greece applied to enter the euro?
I guess it is a bit confusing really. Would u say of someone that expose the mortgages securitization as responsible for the EU debt mess, irresponsible lending, sleeping at the switch national regulators not to mention incompetent M. We don't need an authorisation lousy job that saw nothing of the deficits madness of some countries, that he is a statesman?

I haven't yet but there is a high probability the groupama debt downgrade to shut down for quite a while the ipo, don't think they will do again with these shares what they have done with natixis's, a blind hard retail sale which has drown a lot of critics even here... How will it play out without the cash expected is the wonder for now.
What did u get? - mean ur side ? The preview lead to no the numbers expected won't match those the deal was based on sending the signal a renegotiation, an increase will be necessary and as a result exacerbate tensions about the hair cut... I was opposed to any liability transfer and still think it is a terrible mistake, not just because it is unfair and it is, the consequences of the irresponsible lending to Greece for the past 7 or 8 years can't be a hold up of the Dutch treasury as well as a few others, it is a moral hazard and it will have tremendous negative consequences. It is one thing to intervene because some reckless and irresponsible bankers, with sleeping at the switch regulators cause a systemic risk, it is another one and it can't be an undesirable consequence to allow the lenders to get away with it. If u have a more precise preview, can u post it?

I do support the doggy bag tactic, everybody goes home with something and no money has been spent. Have been doing some research, came up with a short list, do u know if Blackrock has more one fund in this category?

I m afraid the answer is NO. It won't be possible to ask through the northern europe taxpayers to one take the hardship of a difficult economy, organise themselves to deal with their short falls while financing state sponsored social exceptionalism and its bureaucracy's business elsewhere. Do u have the document? Think I'd say that, can correct it for tonight late if u send it now.

Well but u don't know the all story because a few have been looking into it and itv is a surprise... While the wilde lending to Greece was going on regardless of the consequences a significant part of the Brussel's administration resources, money, time and lawyers, folks and more have been engaged in a fight with the UK Boating association and no kidding over what the diesel petrol color they use to propel themselves onto the Kingdom canals.

- m serious -

Better than a Guns and Roses concert.... Am on now.

There are none listed in Paris and given the trouble to access those listed DBorse I doubt it was offered but assuming it was I don't see how a small city could have accessed an account offshore, this is why it was essential to have these products widely available but u can see it hasn't been done.

They could have been long CHF and short euro with an appropriate level of leverage they'd be just fine.

Don't know but they got a load of cities and a few institutions in this situation with loans they didn't hedged against a lower euro...

Don't think so, I have tried over and over again but these guys just don't get it, they get mixed up. If these products had been made available and assuming those in charge had done their homework and their loans convincingly hedged against a weaker euro they wouldn't be in this situation, but they don't get it and instead they go after the euro sceptics pretending they use these products to bet on a euro failure which is true but for a tiny minority that speculate on a failure but the overwhelming majority doesn't have an opinion they just want hedge their euro interests against a weakening currency which is again not just therir interestst but also the interests of the communities they are members of. Look I have tried u wanna have a go, fine with me but good luck. They don't want to hear they don't want their population to educate themselves as they use speculation and the so called speculators fantasm for political purposes...

Can u forward it? And no not quite, the relative boycott of Finland, Norway, Sweden even Danemark or Austria with in some eurozone countries or online brogers such as Scottrade or others should be allowed to open accounts for anyone, access the Claymore mutual funds in NYC costs an extra $20 just for the hell of it and that's the cheapest in town or most a single trade on northern europe stock markets will cost at least $120 and access mutual funds in NYC $60 meaning it deters any trade when it is possible to give u another example etfsecurities etns or etcs listed on think it is Xetra or DBorse u can check using etfsecurities.com can't even be accessed... This has to stop, these policies in which some members state are engaged to actively what can be called boycotts of financial products following the political issues they have with some gov shouldn't lead bare citiz
ens to access financial services.

Open to all doesn't make sense to me. Collateral must be reserved for those not benefiting from the bailout, the Finn taxpayer as well as a few others can't t be liable for a mess they didn't contribute to create and won't benefit from. Those liable through crony banking and gung ho lending as well as recklessness and carelessness of their gov that will directly benefit from the bailout can't pretend to a collateral. The EU fund intervention can't be an opportunity to transfer liabilities of the Greek mess, it is a matter of credibility and accountability to every taxpayer in the Union.

I don't know yet - lookin into it, bloomberg says she said second must cost something... To who? If it is the lender it is understandable if it comes under the form of a reduced rate of interest the collateral covering full value and cannot exceed 50 basis points. On top of what the borrower is charged for the underwriting fees stating the priority incase of default meaning open to all is relative.
what the statement made in English?

Phony what else? I mean u have crazy states spending spree, regulators that happened to be on states or international institutions payrolls not doing their job and to top it up, bankers in bed with politicians cause there can be no other plausible explanation for the type of lending that fuelled the Greek addiction to credit. The result of all of the above is a terrible crisis of gov intervention in the economy, crony banking at its worse and a sick bureaucracy elected officials in bed with forgot they got elected to hold it accountable.
Now the type of conversation about the end of a cycle, a capitalism crisis and all that kind of crap is just a pain.
It is a bit better tonight, central banks are addressing the liquidity problem not the solvency cause they can't . At least the rhetoric is getting better.

Phony what else? I mean u have crazy states spending spree, regulators that happened to be on states or international institutions payrolls not doing their job and to top it up, bankers in bed with politicians cause there can be no other plausible explanation for the type of lending that fuelled the Greek addiction to credit. The result of all of the above is a terrible crisis of gov intervention in the economy, crony banking at its worse and a sick bureaucracy elected officials in bed with forgot they got elected to hold it accountable.
Now the type of conversation about the end of a cycle, a capitalism crisis and all that kind of crap is just a pain.
It is a bit better tonight, central banks are addressing the liquidity problem not the solvency cause they can't . At least the rhetoric is getting better.

Phony what else? I mean u have crazy states spending spree, regulators that happened to be on states or international institutions payrolls not doing their job and to top it up, bankers in bed with politicians cause there can be no other plausible explanation for the type of lending that fuelled the Greek addiction to credit. The result of all of the above is a terrible crisis of gov intervention in the economy, crony banking at its worse and a sick bureaucracy elected officials in bed with forgot they got elected to hold it accountable.
Now the type of conversation about the end of a cycle, a capitalism crisis and all that kind of crap is just a pain.
It is a bit better tonight, central banks are addressing the liquidity problem not the solvency cause they can't . At least the rhetoric is getting better.

Phony what else? I mean u have crazy states spending spree, regulators that happened to be on states or international institutions payrolls not doing their job and to top it up, bankers in bed with politicians cause there can be no other plausible explanation for the type of lending that fuelled the Greek addiction to credit. The result of all of the above is a terrible crisis of gov intervention in the economy, crony banking at its worse and a sick bureaucracy elected officials in bed with forgot they got elected to hold it accountable.
Now the type of conversation about the end of a cycle, a capitalism crisis and all that kind of crap is just a pain.
It is a bit better tonight, central banks are addressing the liquidity problem not the solvency cause they can't . At least the rhetoric is getting better.

Phony what else? I mean u have crazy states spending spree, regulators that happened to be on states or international institutions payrolls not doing their job and to top it up, bankers in bed with politicians cause there can be no other plausible explanation for the type of lending that fuelled the Greek addiction to credit. The result of all of the above is a terrible crisis of gov intervention in the economy, crony banking at its worse and a sick bureaucracy elected officials in bed with forgot they got elected to hold it accountable.
Now the type of conversation about the end of a cycle, a capitalism crisis and all that kind of crap is just a pain.
It is a bit better tonight, central banks are addressing the liquidity problem not the solvency cause they can't . At least the rhetoric is getting better.

Why? Bet on Mr We don't need an authorisation to make sure an affordable financial service is made available throughout the Union to access all the stock markets a key component of the fight against speculation.... And I m not kidding hahahab
!

Don't know about that but a soft Greek default which isn't one needs to produce the expected effects on the economy to address the root causes of the gung ho lending that took place and lead to the disaster, the lack of any preventive action from the EU regulators and the national regulators of the banks deeply involved in the sovereign mess. It doesn't make sense if what lead to the situation isn't exposed, understood and healed?
And I bet we gonna see another round of Super Deviln he did it, he did it.... Unacceptable.

A bit weird but u know free to do so. Whether u have or not a Greek default sweet or hard, u'll be left at the end of the day with the exact same amount of write downs a little bit more a little bit less, the exact same lack of trust as long the root causes are not exposed and adressed so... Frankly saving Greece doesn't mean much.

Not really... But with a possible and affordable direct access no one will be accused of fueling the continent speculation industry !
Am almost done - get back to u right afterwards.

That is just one of the pending problems and the best proof there is a lack of good will. - have hopes that Friday Second Geithner will make clear that that kind of stuff can't go on any longer. From continental europe, it is almost impossible to trade at a reasonable cost stocks and bonds on the LSE ( minimum comes up to € 40 per trade) or the LIFFE, with most financial institution u can't access Norway, Sweden, Asian bond and stock markets or Australia and New Zealand. That is unacceptable.

I suggest for a first shot early morning Asia FX, Bonds still best haven from Europe - Reuters

These are the numbers as of today,
>>In Germany, deposits by financial institutions, which account for one-third the total, declined 12 percent over the same period and 24 percent since the September 2008 collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., ECB figures show. In France, where the erosion started last year, the same type of deposits, which make up half the total, are down 6 percent since June 2010. They have fallen 14 percent since May 2010 at Spanish banks, where they account for one-fifth of the total.
Anything else? ECB has all the numbers and not yet a catastrophe... But I'd expect the trend to accelerate as many start to question gov actions and the consequences of bailouts.

I doubt it. But it will happen just a matter of time I guess. I just don't know yet but post ww2 and since then half the actual eurozone has lived with a monkey currency, disorder and not just in public finances, low ethics high ideology bias in politics and often in business while the other half lived and built strong currencies, lived by strong standards in public finances, high ethics and low ideology in politics and in business. It is a big divide and I can't support the idea that it is ok to ruin those efforts that took place in the Netherlands, Finland and a few others just because some including the french politicians have engaged into crazy spending spree and policies.

I doubt it. But it will happen just a matter of time I guess. I just don't know yet but post ww2 and since then half the actual eurozone has lived with a monkey currency, disorder and not just in public finances, low ethics high ideology bias in politics and often in business while the other half lived and built strong currencies, lived by strong standards in public finances, high ethics and low ideology in politics and in business. It is a big divide and I can't support the idea that it is ok to ruin those efforts that took place in the Netherlands, Finland and a few others just because some including the french politicians have engaged into crazy spending spree and policies.

Latest, u got the Raffarine a former french gov PM that explains the actual crisis in the eurozone by the speculation industry intervention over taking the markets and undermining euro gov actions....
It is appalling! - don't what the bastbipip is taking about, speculation industry... What can it be ? Any idea? Have read ur piece. Good. Recommend Belger's on Bloomberg if I haven't damaged his name a former Merrvin's adviser. Am on my way, will tell u later but it appears if taking Japan gauge that it should be around 1800 by second quarter 2012, timing is difficult.

No I disagreed and still do… It is too late, for banks to raise capital should the intent to be Markets reassurance … doesn’t  make sense now unless states buy the paper. It was necessary since Lehman’s collapse exposed the weaknesses of continental europe, a true stress test no cheat and should have been done following the bailout payments, for a little while, following the move, those institutions able to pay back govs had little time to raise capital and improve their ratios and restore even further both trust and lending, but they didn’t and it is too late now for that. To get them out the storm the last option is to unload their books of all the toxic sovereign assets, then raise capital.

?? Cramer  had a funny one EU regulators clueless..??? Seen it? What is remarkable there is u have no one absolutely no one to say what President Obama had no problem sayin, I mean, at the time he said the regulators were slipping at the switch…. but there…. nothing, everybody did just fine, nobody made mistakes… oh, yeah. the Greek previous gov, a small devil, and Super Devil LLoyd who helped the small one dodged the EU…. according to the cute bureaucracy… With the scale of the consequences of their careless job whether politicians or bureaucrats, I just wonder if they understand that by saying that it makes them the world worst bench of dummies ever in power?

Jonathan, be good...!

no, honestly… thought the guy was joking. Well, I don’t know yet, wasn’t it worth the try, it is early to say no, nevertheless, a decade is fair enough, those guys have missold  the currency and now facing the odds of their failure and lies. Go back in time and look at how and what were the arguments to sell the euro to the various nations, to make it short, growth, jobs, a sort of Deutche Mark for everyone free and a joyful future…. Enjoy….. Not once, these guys told their nations, u r not just going for a new currency, ur going for a new culture regarding the financial management of public finances, to keep the euro and to keep it healthy, deficits and debt must be fought and the price to pay will be tough. These national conversations never took place and politicians to get reelected for the past decade cheated, in Greece, yes but not just in Greece, everywhere else as well, probably not to the extent the “previous gov” as they say in Brussels did, but except northern eurozone, everybody else, including France did their part to weaken the currency and to get the zone as a all into a crisis with the mountain of debts building, something not one gov or Brussels and Strasburg ignored….. and paying attention to what they say today, they aren t still into that necessary national conversation with their nations….

A dead end for now if they don’t find the courage to address their people with a true language and a renewed deal they can honor. Are they credible enough for that kind of exercise? I’d say no right now they don’t even have the guts to tell the truth….

Do u agree with what he said as opposed to Van Rompuy. I do.

I strongly oppose any patronizing of the Finns, the Dutch or anybody else for that matter, their position make sense and more importantly is absolutely consistent with their handling of public finances for the last decade and they don’t carry any responsibility in the EU debt crisis. If everyone else had had the same sense of the common wealth good the Finns and the Dutch showed over the last decade, there will be no EU debt crisis….. That’s my state of mind right now.

I did but think it was a joke when he made the call for the Finns to act responsibly and stop playing national politics at the EU level... But apparently he wasn't . Not sure what he meant as by looking at it y r kind of tempted to say everybody else didn't act responsibly for the past ten years starting with those for who it was a duty they got paid for I mean the reckless Brussels and Strasburg bureaucracy, a majority of gov in the eurozone that kept voting budget deficits and lived on a crazy spending spree the purchase power injected in the currency allowed knowingly aware they never did anything for the strenght of that purchasing power... so why is that suddenly the Finns should act responsibly when absolutely nobody did for an entire decade? Not to mention this type of accusation is patronising, I mean for someone representing the entire lot that has been getting drunk and now want to sue those who didn't because they r healthy and they shouldn't ... Saw Zoellinck

what does it mean… don’t ask me… wasn’t there I just don’t know, just read it just like I guess u did… well, it says the deal is dead but it doesn’t mean much cause the idea that some had in mind to fund their losses in Greece with the Finn’s and a few others tax money will not happen that I can tell u. Finn gov disappear with a project of that nature, the guys won’t accept it and Ft had not that long ago the same kind of broiling in the Netherlands and it has not gone away as far as I know.